<div dir="ltr"><div>Folks:</div><div><br></div>I have to say that I'm in Yosi's camp. A vote for "bi-gelal" is a vote for sanity.<div><br></div><div>B </div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Thu, Feb 7, 2019 at 1:23 PM Neil Manel Frau-Cortes via Heb-naco <<a href="mailto:heb-naco@lists.osu.edu">heb-naco@lists.osu.edu</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr">I agree with Jasmin.<div><br></div><div><br></div><div>Neil</div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Thu, Feb 7, 2019 at 4:20 PM Shinohara, Jasmin via Heb-naco <<a href="mailto:heb-naco@lists.osu.edu" target="_blank">heb-naco@lists.osu.edu</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:rgb(31,73,125)">I hear the concern, Yossi, but I’m afraid we’ve already started down the proverbial slope. Per the
<a href="http://rascat.pbworks.com/w/page/109347700/Romanization%20FAQ" target="_blank">FAQ</a>, we’ve agreed to romanize the words as<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:rgb(31,73,125)">Bediʻavad<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:rgb(31,73,125)">Bahem<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:rgb(31,73,125)">Bilvad<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:rgb(31,73,125)">Kaʻet<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:rgb(31,73,125)">Kefi<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:rgb(31,73,125)">Levad<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:rgb(31,73,125)">Lemaʻan<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:rgb(31,73,125)">Lefi<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:rgb(31,73,125)">Mimeni<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:rgb(31,73,125)">Sheli<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:rgb(31,73,125)">No one can argue for Shvil since the sheva na’ at the beginning of a word requires it to be Shevil. No one can argue for Birushalayim because there is no E-Sh. entry for the compound.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:rgb(31,73,125)">So do I hear consensus on Biglal (and Bishvil – when it means “because/on behalf of”; otherwise bi/ba-shevil when it means “on a/the path)?<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif"> Heb-naco [mailto:<a href="mailto:heb-naco-bounces@lists.osu.edu" target="_blank">heb-naco-bounces@lists.osu.edu</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Galron, Joseph via Heb-naco<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, February 07, 2019 12:52 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Hebrew Name Authority Funnel<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Heb-NACO] <span lang="HE" dir="RTL">בגלל</span><u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:rgb(31,73,125)">It is “dangerous” going to Biglal or Bishvil – tomorrow we will say: If it is Bishvil so why not change it to Shvil
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:rgb(31,73,125)">We also Romanize </span><span lang="HE" dir="RTL" style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">בירושלים
</span><span dir="LTR"></span><span style="color:rgb(31,73,125)"><span dir="LTR"></span> to “Bi-Yerushalayim” and not to “Birushalayim”<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:rgb(31,73,125)">Yossi<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> Heb-naco <<a href="mailto:heb-naco-bounces@lists.osu.edu" target="_blank">heb-naco-bounces@lists.osu.edu</a>> <b>On Behalf Of
</b>Shinohara, Jasmin via Heb-naco<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, February 7, 2019 12:31 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Gottschalk, Haim <<a href="mailto:hgot@loc.gov" target="_blank">hgot@loc.gov</a>>; 'Hebrew Name Authority Funnel' <<a href="mailto:heb-naco@lists.osu.edu" target="_blank">heb-naco@lists.osu.edu</a>><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Heb-NACO] <span lang="HE" dir="RTL" style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">
בגלל</span><u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:rgb(31,73,125)">Hi, Haim, bi-gelal would be correct if the
</span><span lang="HE" dir="RTL" style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">ב</span><span lang="HE" dir="RTL" style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">
</span><span style="color:rgb(31,73,125)">is considered a prefix to the word </span><span lang="HE" dir="RTL" style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">גלל</span><span dir="LTR"></span><span style="color:rgb(31,73,125)"><span dir="LTR"></span>. But since there
is a direct entry for the word as a whole, I’m asking if we should romanize it as a whole word instead of as a compound word.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:rgb(31,73,125)">Thanks, Jasmin<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif"> Gottschalk, Haim [<a href="mailto:hgot@loc.gov" target="_blank">mailto:hgot@loc.gov</a>]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, February 07, 2019 12:24 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Shinohara, Jasmin; 'Hebrew Name Authority Funnel'<br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: <span lang="HE" dir="RTL">בגלל</span><u></u><u></u></span></p>
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</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:rgb(192,80,77)">I think it should be “biglal” and not “bi-gelal” because of the sheva being treat as a sheva nach (which is how it is in the Alcalay). This is in my humble opinion.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:rgb(192,80,77)"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:rgb(192,80,77)">~Haim<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:rgb(192,80,77)"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> Heb-naco <<a href="mailto:heb-naco-bounces@lists.osu.edu" target="_blank">heb-naco-bounces@lists.osu.edu</a>>
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Shinohara, Jasmin via Heb-naco<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, February 07, 2019 11:00 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Hebrew Name Authority Funnel <<a href="mailto:heb-naco@lists.osu.edu" target="_blank">heb-naco@lists.osu.edu</a>><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [Heb-NACO] <span lang="HE" dir="RTL" style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">
בגלל</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>Hello Collective Wisdom, please remind me: if there’s an entry in E-Sh., even if it ends with a “see also”, is that sufficient justification for romanizing the word as a word as opposed to a compound?
E.g. </span><span lang="HE" dir="RTL" style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif">בגלל</span><span lang="HE" dir="RTL" style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">
</span><span>has a direct entry, so I’d think it would be romanized biglal (NOT bigelal because as a whole word, the sheva would be considered merahef, ignored in romanization), but the entry also says “see
</span><span lang="HE" dir="RTL" style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif">גלל</span><span dir="LTR"></span><span><span dir="LTR"></span>”. So which is it: Biglal or Bi-gelal?<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>Thanks, Jasmin<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">---<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Jasmin Shinohara<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Hebraica Cataloging Librarian<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">University of Pennsylvania<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Van Pelt-Dietrich Library Center<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">3420 Walnut Street<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Philadelphia, PA 19104-6206<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">T. 215-746-6397<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><a href="mailto:jshino@upenn.edu" target="_blank">jshino@upenn.edu</a><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
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</blockquote></div><br clear="all"><div><br></div>-- <br><div dir="ltr" class="gmail-m_-293505214309382488gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><p style="margin-bottom:12pt"><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;color:black"><b style="font-size:12pt">Neil M.
Frau-Cortes, Ph.D. </b></span><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;color:black"></span><span style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;font-size:x-small">(he, him, his)</span></p>
<p><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;color:black">Judaica, Hebraica and Metadata Cataloger</span></p>
<p><br></p>
<p><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;color:black">University of Maryland</span></p><p><span style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Calibri;font-size:14.6667px;white-space:pre-wrap;background-color:transparent">4109 </span><span style="font-size:12.8px;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;color:black">McKeldin Library</span></p><p><span style="color:black;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;font-size:12.8px">College Park, MD 20742</span></p><p><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;color:black">
Phone (301) 405-9337</span></p>
<p><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;color:black"><span style="color:blue"><a href="http://nfrau@umd.edu" target="_blank">nfrau@umd.edu</a></span></span><span style="color:black"></span></p><p><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;color:black">ORCID ID: </span><span style="color:rgb(73,74,76);font-family:"Noto Sans",sans-serif;font-size:12px"><a href="https://orcid.org/0000-0002-1881-1405" target="_blank">https://orcid.org/0000-0002-1881-1405</a></span></p><p><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;color:black"><br></span></p></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div>
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</blockquote></div><br clear="all"><div><br></div>-- <br><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><div>Bob Talbott<br><br>Principal cataloger/Hebraica cataloger<br><br>UC Berkeley<br><br>250 Moffitt<br><br>Berkeley, CA 94720<br><br>If they're too small for court, they're probably shorts.</div><div>If they're long and advanced, you're looking at pants</div></div></div>