<div dir="ltr">My opinion (if someone is interested)<div>If YHVH is vocalized - then romanize is according to to the vocalization. There is is always an option to add 246s for other forms (Adonai, Ha-shem, YHVH, etc.)</div><div>I think the 246 should be added only if there it affects the Title index in the catalog (i.e. first or second word in the title).</div><div><br></div><div>Yossi</div><div><br></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br clear="all"><div><div class="gmail_signature" data-smartmail="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><img src="http://osu.edu/assets/site/images/logos/osu-emailsig.png" alt="The Ohio State University" width="223" height="45" style="margin:0px;padding:0px 0px 5px;border:0px;font-size:12px;font-family:Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;vertical-align:baseline;color:rgb(51,51,51);line-height:17px"><br style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;font-size:12px;line-height:17px"><font color="#ff0000">Joseph (Yossi) Galron-Goldschlaeger</font><span style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;font-size:12px;line-height:17px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"> </span><br style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;font-size:12px;line-height:17px">Head, Hebraica & Jewish Studies Library<br style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;font-size:12px;line-height:17px"><span style="font-size:small">and Acting German Language and Literature Librarian</span><br></div><div>355A Thompson Memorial Library</div>The Ohio State University Libraries <br>1858 Neil Ave. Mall<br>Columbus, Ohio 43210 USA<br>Tel.: (614) 292-3362, Fax: (614)292-1918<div><span style="margin:0px;padding:0px 10px 0px 0px;border:0px;font-size:12px;font-family:Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;vertical-align:baseline;color:rgb(51,51,51);line-height:17px"><span style="font-family:arial;font-size:small;line-height:normal">Mobile: (614) 285-4290</span></span></div><div>E-Mail: <a href="mailto:galron.1@osu.edu" target="_blank">galron.1@osu.edu</a> or <a href="mailto:jgalron@gmail.com" target="_blank">jgalron@gmail.com</a></div><div>URL: <a href="http://library.osu.edu/about/departments/jewish-studies/" target="_blank">http://library.osu.edu/about/departments/jewish-studies/</a><br>Lexicon of Modern Hebrew Literature:<br><a href="http://go.osu.edu/hebrewlit" target="_blank">http://go.osu.edu/hebrewlit</a><br></div></div></div></div></div></div>
<br><div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Jul 6, 2017 at 11:25 AM, Gottschalk, Haim <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:hgot@loc.gov" target="_blank">hgot@loc.gov</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;border-right:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;padding-right:1ex">
<div lang="EN-US" link="blue" vlink="purple">
<div class="m_8679591647951052888WordSection1">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#c0504d">My thoughts would be if vocalized – follow the vocalized and Romanize accordingly in the 245, example if the vowels correspond to Adonai, then Adonai would be
in the 245. In the 246 I would put YHVH, with a dot under the vav.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#c0504d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#c0504d">Haim<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#c0504d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #b5c4df 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""> Heb-naco [mailto:<a href="mailto:heb-naco-bounces%2Bhgot" target="_blank">heb-naco-bounces+hgot</a>=<a href="mailto:loc.gov@lists.osu.edu" target="_blank"><wbr>loc.gov@lists.osu.edu</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Dickel, Geraldine<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, July 06, 2017 11:17 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:rtalbott@library.berkeley.edu" target="_blank">rtalbott@library.berkeley.edu</a>; Hebrew Name Authority Funnel</span></p><div><div class="h5"><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Heb-NACO] Transliterating yud heh vav heh<u></u><u></u></div></div><p></p>
</div>
</div><div><div class="h5">
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">Good question. If the vowels are supplied should the Tetragrammaton be Romanized with the vowels?
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">Should the HCM say: The unvocalized Tetragrammaton,
</span><span lang="HE" dir="RTL" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">יהוה</span><span dir="LTR"></span><span dir="LTR"></span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><span dir="LTR"></span><span dir="LTR"></span>,
should be Romanized YHṾH. If the Tetragrammaton is vocalized it should be Romanized with the vowels as given in the source.”<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">Thoughts?<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">Best,<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">Jerry Anne<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""> Robert M. TALBOTT [<a href="mailto:rtalbott@library.berkeley.edu" target="_blank">mailto:rtalbott@library.<wbr>berkeley.edu</a>]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, July 06, 2017 10:58 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Dickel, Geraldine <<a href="mailto:geraldine.dickel@yale.edu" target="_blank">geraldine.dickel@yale.edu</a>>; Hebrew Name Authority Funnel <<a href="mailto:heb-naco@lists.osu.edu" target="_blank">heb-naco@lists.osu.edu</a>><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Heb-NACO] Transliterating yud heh vav heh<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Well, it's been lost in the dust up, but what about cases where vowels are supplied? Or is the Tetragrammaton always YHVH in all instances, euphemistic added entries not with standing?<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On Thu, Jul 6, 2017 at 6:27 AM, Dickel, Geraldine <<a href="mailto:geraldine.dickel@yale.edu" target="_blank">geraldine.dickel@yale.edu</a>> wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
<blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid #cccccc 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">I have added: “The Tetragrammaton,
</span><span lang="HE" dir="RTL" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">יהוה</span><span dir="LTR"></span><span dir="LTR"></span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><span dir="LTR"></span><span dir="LTR"></span>,
should be Romanized YHṾH.” to page 32 of the HCM under Names of the Divinity. Jasmin has also added it to the Romanization FAQ document on the AJL RAS Cataloging wiki.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""> </span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">Thank you,</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">Jerry Anne</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""> </span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""> Heb-naco [mailto:<a href="mailto:heb-naco-bounces%2Bgeraldine.dickel" target="_blank">heb-naco-bounces+<wbr>geraldine.dickel</a>=<a href="mailto:yale.edu@lists.osu.edu" target="_blank">yale.edu@<wbr>lists.osu.edu</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Robert M. TALBOTT<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, July 05, 2017 5:31 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Hebrew Name Authority Funnel <<a href="mailto:heb-naco@lists.osu.edu" target="_blank">heb-naco@lists.osu.edu</a>><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Heb-NACO] Transliterating yud heh vav heh</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Thanks folks.<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Is there any chance we could get a transliteration advisory covering this included in the HCM? 'Twould be quite handy for those few times it actually happens.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">B<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On Wed, Jul 5, 2017 at 1:59 PM, Judith Zupnick <<a href="mailto:judiezup@msn.com" target="_blank">judiezup@msn.com</a>> wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
<blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid #cccccc 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<div id="m_8679591647951052888m_-8885389246152684343m_645543039496938003divtagdefaultwrapper">
<p><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">I agree with Joan.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"> </span><u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<div class="MsoNormal" align="center" style="text-align:center"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">
<hr size="3" width="98%" align="center">
</span></div>
<div id="m_8679591647951052888m_-8885389246152684343m_645543039496938003divRplyFwdMsg">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"> Heb-naco
<heb-naco-bounces+judiezup=<a href="mailto:msn.com@lists.osu.edu" target="_blank">msn<wbr>.com@lists.osu.edu</a>> on behalf of Joan Biella <<a href="mailto:jbiella2632@gmail.com" target="_blank">jbiella2632@gmail.com</a>><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, July 5, 2017 1:39 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Hebrew Name Authority Funnel<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Heb-NACO] Transliterating yud heh vav heh</span><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">
</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"> </span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">I agree with Aaron, and would advocate for YHVH (subscript dot under V) as the least controversial way to deal with this situation.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">Joan</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"> </span><u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">On Wed, Jul 5, 2017 at 1:22 PM, Kuperman, Aaron <<a href="mailto:akup@loc.gov" target="_blank">akup@loc.gov</a>> wrote:</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid #cccccc 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Assuming there are no nekudot, would it not be presumptuous for a cataloger to claim to know how
it would be pronounced.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Aaron Kuperman, LC Law Cataloging Section.
</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">This is not an official communication from my employer</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black"> Heb-naco
[mailto:<a href="mailto:heb-naco-bounces%2Bakup" target="_blank">heb-naco-bounces+akup</a>=<a href="mailto:loc.gov@lists.osu.edu" target="_blank"><wbr>loc.gov@lists.osu.edu</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Robert M. TALBOTT<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, July 05, 2017 3:49 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Hebrew Name Authority Funnel<br>
<b>Subject:</b> [Heb-NACO] Transliterating yud heh vav heh</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"> </span><u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">Hi folks:</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"> </span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">I'm cataloging a book right now that has the tetragrammaton in the title. </span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"> </span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">1) YHVH? This is what the record has</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">2) Yehovah? My preference</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">3) Yahveh? As good as any other</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">4) Or should we use a euphemism,e.g ha-Shem? </span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"> </span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">I'm not invested in this one and am agnostic as to the outcome, but which form is preferred? The euphemism 'ha-Shem"
and "Adonai" are already slotted in the record as added title entries.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"> </span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">B<br>
-- </span><u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">Bob Talbott<br>
<br>
Principal cataloger/Hebraica cataloger<br>
<br>
UC Berkeley<br>
<br>
250 Moffitt<br>
<br>
Berkeley, CA 94720<br>
<br>
I'm just mad about Saffron</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"><br>
______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
Heb-naco mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:Heb-naco@lists.osu.edu" target="_blank">Heb-naco@lists.osu.edu</a><br>
<a href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__lists.osu.edu_mailman_listinfo_heb-2Dnaco&d=DwMFaQ&c=cjytLXgP8ixuoHflwc-poQ&r=cX-JfhQlUwhLVWvvsRM8LpRtWoJnc-1xOAkRHgoNXs0&m=8Bhpkp2UFGvtGlCIxFR2NMgooC9g5DAB6NZFqQpIiqI&s=bvQ43k4dfpfsvm3wGujVC6kPUOR8YKBlAmzlglfsMs8&e=" target="_blank">https://lists.osu.edu/mailman/<wbr>listinfo/heb-naco</a></span><u></u><u></u></p>
</blockquote>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"> </span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><br>
______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
Heb-naco mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:Heb-naco@lists.osu.edu" target="_blank">Heb-naco@lists.osu.edu</a><br>
<a href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__lists.osu.edu_mailman_listinfo_heb-2Dnaco&d=DwMFaQ&c=cjytLXgP8ixuoHflwc-poQ&r=cX-JfhQlUwhLVWvvsRM8LpRtWoJnc-1xOAkRHgoNXs0&m=8Bhpkp2UFGvtGlCIxFR2NMgooC9g5DAB6NZFqQpIiqI&s=bvQ43k4dfpfsvm3wGujVC6kPUOR8YKBlAmzlglfsMs8&e=" target="_blank">https://lists.osu.edu/mailman/<wbr>listinfo/heb-naco</a><u></u><u></u></p>
</blockquote>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
<br clear="all">
<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal">--
<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Bob Talbott<br>
<br>
Principal cataloger/Hebraica cataloger<br>
<br>
UC Berkeley<br>
<br>
250 Moffitt<br>
<br>
Berkeley, CA 94720<br>
<br>
I'm just mad about Saffron<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
<br clear="all">
<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal">-- <u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Bob Talbott<br>
<br>
Principal cataloger/Hebraica cataloger<br>
<br>
UC Berkeley<br>
<br>
250 Moffitt<br>
<br>
Berkeley, CA 94720<br>
<br>
I'm just mad about Saffron<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div></div></div>
</div>
<br>______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
Heb-naco mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:Heb-naco@lists.osu.edu">Heb-naco@lists.osu.edu</a><br>
<a href="https://lists.osu.edu/mailman/listinfo/heb-naco" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.osu.edu/mailman/<wbr>listinfo/heb-naco</a><br>
<br></blockquote></div><br></div></div>