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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Yes, I also agree re dramah, psefas, etc. Esp. with regard to the latter and its ilk, there should be no question, since ps in Greek is a single letter. And there
should be no requirement to check dictionaries. Keep it simple.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Barry<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Barry Dov Walfish, Ph.D.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Judaica and Religious Studies Specialist<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Collection Development Department and<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Thomas Fisher Rare Book Library<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">University of Toronto Library<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">130 St. George St.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Toronto, ON<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Canada M5S 1A5<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Phone: 416-946-3176 or 416-978-4319<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Fax: 416-978-1667 or 416-946-0635<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">e-mail: barry.walfish@utoronto.ca<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> Heb-naco [mailto:heb-naco-bounces+barry.walfish=utoronto.ca@lists.osu.edu]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Robert M. TALBOTT<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, April 27, 2017 12:56 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Hebrew Name Authority Funnel <heb-naco@lists.osu.edu><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Heb-NACO] AJL RAS Cataloging Committee and romanization of foreign loan words<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">For what it counts, I agree with Yossi and Joan, which is to say, all loan words should be treated the same. No deramah, only dramah.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">B<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">On Thu, Apr 27, 2017 at 7:52 AM, Dickel, Geraldine <<a href="mailto:geraldine.dickel@yale.edu" target="_blank">geraldine.dickel@yale.edu</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">Dear colleagues,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;background:white">
<span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">I have posted the minutes from the 2016 AJL RAS Cataloging Committee meeting on the AJL RAS Cataloging Wiki (<a href="http://rascat.pbworks.com/w/page/117519816/AJL%20RAS%20Cataloging%20Committee%20Meeting-2016" target="_blank">http://rascat.pbworks.com/w/page/117519816/AJL%20RAS%20Cataloging%20Committee%20Meeting-2016</a>).
Thank you, Lenore Bell, for taking and writing up the minutes for us – I am very grateful.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">One issue from the meeting that has not yet been resolved is the question of the romanization of initial consonant clusters in foreign loan word of Greek or Latin origen, such as Deramah/Dramah,
words beginning with pesikh/psikh, etc., as well as pesefas/psefas. The members of the AJL RAS Catalog committee need to vote on whether or not to change the policy of following Alcalay in such cases. Section 6 of the 2016 meeting minutes reports on the
discussion of this issue that took place at the committee meeting. The archive of the email discussion of this issue is at
<a href="https://www.mail-archive.com/heb-naco@lists.osu.edu/msg00389.html" target="_blank">
https://www.mail-archive.com/heb-naco@lists.osu.edu/msg00389.html</a></span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">On page 19 of Hebraica Cataloging RDA, under Foreign Loan Words, it is written:</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">“The first sheṿa in a foreign loan word with an initial consonantal cluster is generally treated as a sheṿa naḥ. For correct romanization
it is necessary to consult Even-Shoshan and Alcalay on a case-by-case basis.”</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">Should we add a line to the manual stating that Alcalay
<b>should not</b> be followed in cases of foreign loan words of Greek or Latin origin. Should all initial shevas in such words be considered to be silent shevas? Or is there some other principle by which we should determine if the initial sheva is silent
or vocal for these words? Are there any foreign loan words of Greek or Latin origin for which we would not want to treat an initial sheva as a silent sheva?</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">I would like to open the “floor” for any additional discussion on this matter, prior to calling for a vote on the proposal to change
the policy of following Alcalay in cases of foreign loan words of Greek or Latin origin.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">Sincerely,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">Jerry Anne Dickel (chair)</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">-- <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Bob Talbott<br>
<br>
Principal cataloger/Hebraica cataloger<br>
<br>
UC Berkeley<br>
<br>
250 Moffitt<br>
<br>
Berkeley, CA 94720<br>
<br>
I'm just mad about Saffron<o:p></o:p></p>
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