<div dir="ltr"><div><div>Even-Shoshan is the arbiter of these questions. The aim of ALA/LC romanization schemes is to produce easily verified, standardized equivalents, not to represent the pronunciation of a contemporary group, no matter who, no matter how large (or small). Many vocal friends don't like these facts, but please consider the benefits of, I'll say it again, easily verified, standardized romanizations for our enormous library community.<br><br></div>Joan<br><br></div>P.S. I learned Hebrew in a very unusual way, in connection with obtaining a degree in (wait for it!) Comparative Semitic Philology. There are quite a few things about LC romanization that I hate very much and feel are wrong, wrong, wrong, doing horrible injustice to the "true" Hebrew I studied in conjunction with its sister Semitic languages. So what? ALA/LC romanization serves a different purpose and a different community.<br></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Sep 1, 2016 at 2:26 PM, Shinohara, Jasmin <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:jshino@pobox.upenn.edu" target="_blank">jshino@pobox.upenn.edu</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div link="blue" vlink="purple" lang="EN-US">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">I agree with Barry; as in various other cases, we disregard pronunciation in favor of established vocalization/rules. Users beware…<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""> Heb-naco [mailto:<a href="mailto:heb-naco-bounces@lists.osu.edu" target="_blank">heb-naco-bounces@<wbr>lists.osu.edu</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Robert M. TALBOTT<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, September 01, 2016 5:23 PM</span></p><div><div class="h5"><br>
<b>To:</b> Hebrew Name Authority Funnel<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Heb-NACO] ehyeh, right?<u></u><u></u></div></div><p></p><div><div class="h5">
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">I think it's time to light the Joan signal. <u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On Thu, Sep 1, 2016 at 2:18 PM, Barry Walfish <<a href="mailto:barry.walfish@utoronto.ca" target="_blank">barry.walfish@utoronto.ca</a>> wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black">In this case, the native speaker's pronunciation follows the path of least resistance. It's easier to say eheyeh than ehyeh, so the vowels shift. This happens
in a lot of cases. I don't think there's any question that the sheva is nah. But I've been surprised before. But for romanization purposes we should follow the grammar rules, no?<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black"><br>
Barry Dov Walfish, Ph.D.<br>
Judaica Specialist<br>
University of Toronto Libraries <br>
Toronto, ON M5S 1A5<br>
Canada<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:center" align="center"><span style="color:black">
<hr align="center" size="3" width="100%">
</span></div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black"> Heb-naco [<a href="mailto:heb-naco-bounces@lists.osu.edu" target="_blank">heb-naco-bounces@lists.osu.<wbr>edu</a>]
on behalf of Yossi Galron [<a href="mailto:jgalron@gmail.com" target="_blank">jgalron@gmail.com</a>]<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, September 01, 2016 4:51 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Hebrew Name Authority Funnel<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Heb-NACO] ehyeh, right?</span><span style="color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black">There is no discussion on the Nikud of the word, but how to pronounce it.
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black">The question is - is it a <span dir="RTL" lang="HE">
שווא נח</span><span dir="LTR"></span><span dir="LTR"></span> or a <span dir="RTL" lang="HE">
שווא נע</span><span dir="LTR"></span><span dir="LTR"></span>.?<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black">The modern pronunciation is Eheyeh. Native Hebrew speakers would go for Eheyeh.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" dir="RTL" style="text-align:right;direction:rtl">
<span style="color:black" lang="HE">שיהיה לכם יום טוב</span><span dir="LTR" style="color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" dir="RTL" style="text-align:right;direction:rtl">
<span style="color:black" lang="HE"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black"><br clear="all">
<span dir="RTL" lang="HE"><u></u><u></u></span></span></p>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black">Joseph (Yossi) Galron-Goldschläger<br>
E-Mail: <a href="mailto:galron.1@osu.edu" target="_blank">galron.1@osu.edu</a> or
<a href="mailto:jgalron@gmail.com" target="_blank">jgalron@gmail.com</a><br>
Tel.: <a href="tel:%28614%29%20292-3362" target="_blank">(614) 292-3362</a>, Fax:
<a href="tel:%28614%29292-1918" target="_blank">(614)292-1918</a><br>
Lexicon of Modern Hebrew Literature: <a href="http://go.osu.edu/hebrewlit" target="_blank">
http://go.osu.edu/hebrewlit</a><u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black">On Thu, Sep 1, 2016 at 4:43 PM, Shinohara, Jasmin <<a href="mailto:jshino@pobox.upenn.edu" target="_blank">jshino@pobox.upenn.edu</a>> wrote:<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Yes, E-Sh. under Hayah, p. 380 on the right has just a sheva, no patah, with a subentry for Ehyeh
Asher Ehyeh (Shemot 3:14, as cited by Barry) (see attached). </span><span style="color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span><span style="color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black"> Heb-naco
[mailto:<a href="mailto:heb-naco-bounces%2Bjshino" target="_blank">heb-naco-bounces+<wbr>jshino</a>=<a href="mailto:pobox.upenn.edu@lists.osu.edu" target="_blank">pobox.upenn.edu@lists.<wbr>osu.edu</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Yossi Galron<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, September 01, 2016 4:35 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Robert M. TALBOTT; Hebrew Name Authority Funnel<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Heb-NACO] ehyeh, right?</span><span style="color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black"> <u></u><u></u></span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black">Check ES under Hayah
<span dir="RTL" lang="HE">היה</span><span dir="LTR"></span><span dir="LTR"></span> page 380 on the right side of the page.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black"> <u></u><u></u></span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black">I also checked Rav milim by Yaakov Choueka (1996) and there there is a hataf under the He<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black">(see attached)<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black"> <u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black"><br clear="all">
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black"> <u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black">Joseph (Yossi) Galron-Goldschläger<br>
E-Mail: <a href="mailto:galron.1@osu.edu" target="_blank">galron.1@osu.edu</a> or
<a href="mailto:jgalron@gmail.com" target="_blank">jgalron@gmail.com</a><br>
Tel.: <a href="tel:%28614%29%20292-3362" target="_blank">(614) 292-3362</a>, Fax:
<a href="tel:%28614%29292-1918" target="_blank">(614)292-1918</a><br>
Lexicon of Modern Hebrew Literature: <a href="http://go.osu.edu/hebrewlit" target="_blank">
http://go.osu.edu/hebrewlit</a><u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black"> <u></u><u></u></span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black">On Thu, Sep 1, 2016 at 4:15 PM, Yossi Galron <<a href="mailto:jgalron@gmail.com" target="_blank">jgalron@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black">I am for Eheyeh.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black"> <u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black">Eheyeh asher Eheyeh<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black"> <u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black">Yossi<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black"> <u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black"><br clear="all">
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black"> <u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black">Joseph (Yossi) Galron-Goldschläger<br>
E-Mail: <a href="mailto:galron.1@osu.edu" target="_blank">galron.1@osu.edu</a> or
<a href="mailto:jgalron@gmail.com" target="_blank">jgalron@gmail.com</a><br>
Tel.: <a href="tel:%28614%29%20292-3362" target="_blank">(614) 292-3362</a>, Fax:
<a href="tel:%28614%29292-1918" target="_blank">(614)292-1918</a><br>
Lexicon of Modern Hebrew Literature: <a href="http://go.osu.edu/hebrewlit" target="_blank">
http://go.osu.edu/hebrewlit</a><u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black"> <u></u><u></u></span></p>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black">On Thu, Sep 1, 2016 at 3:15 PM, Robert M. TALBOTT <<a href="mailto:rtalbott@library.berkeley.edu" target="_blank">rtalbott@library.berkeley.edu</a><wbr>> wrote:<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid #cccccc 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black">Folks:<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black"> <u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black">alef heh yud heh: my sense of this, which is apparently supported by the various dictionaries, is that this is romanized as "ehyeh" ; there's a sheva under
the first heh However, there is not consensus on OCLC; about 20% of the entries I saw had "eheyeh," and many of these are from reliable institutions.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black"> <u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black">Ehyeh, right? If I'm wrong, why?</span><span style="color:#888888"><br clear="all">
</span><span style="color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#888888"> </span><span style="color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#888888">--
</span><span style="color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#888888">Bob Talbott<br>
<br>
Principal cataloger/Hebraica cataloger<br>
<br>
UC Berkeley<br>
<br>
250 Moffitt<br>
<br>
Berkeley, CA 94720<br>
<br>
I'm just mad about Saffron</span><span style="color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black"> <u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span style="color:black">______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
Heb-naco mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:Heb-naco@lists.osu.edu" target="_blank">Heb-naco@lists.osu.edu</a><br>
<a href="https://lists.osu.edu/mailman/listinfo/heb-naco" target="_blank">https://lists.osu.edu/mailman/<wbr>listinfo/heb-naco</a><u></u><u></u></span></p>
</blockquote>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black"> <u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black"> <u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span style="color:black"><br>
______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
Heb-naco mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:Heb-naco@lists.osu.edu" target="_blank">Heb-naco@lists.osu.edu</a><br>
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</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><br>
______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
Heb-naco mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:Heb-naco@lists.osu.edu" target="_blank">Heb-naco@lists.osu.edu</a><br>
<a href="https://lists.osu.edu/mailman/listinfo/heb-naco" target="_blank">https://lists.osu.edu/mailman/<wbr>listinfo/heb-naco</a><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
<br clear="all">
<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal">-- <u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Bob Talbott<br>
<br>
Principal cataloger/Hebraica cataloger<br>
<br>
UC Berkeley<br>
<br>
250 Moffitt<br>
<br>
Berkeley, CA 94720<br>
<br>
I'm just mad about Saffron<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div></div></div>
</div>
<br>______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
Heb-naco mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:Heb-naco@lists.osu.edu">Heb-naco@lists.osu.edu</a><br>
<a href="https://lists.osu.edu/mailman/listinfo/heb-naco" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.osu.edu/mailman/<wbr>listinfo/heb-naco</a><br>
<br></blockquote></div><br></div>