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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=EN-US link=blue vlink=purple><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>And anyone who actually is fluent in Hebrew is probably disinterested in our romanizations. Romanization only benefits those who are fluent but illiterate in Hebrew, but are literate in English, which raises the question of why we are even bothering with it. --Aaron Kuperman <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Aaron Kuperman, LC Law Cataloging Section. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>This is <b>NOT</b> an official communication from my employer<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> Heb-naco [mailto:heb-naco-bounces@lists.osu.edu] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Elhanan Adler<br><b>Sent:</b> Thursday, July 28, 2016 1:32 AM<br><b>To:</b> Hebrew Name Authority Funnel<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Heb-NACO] Tekafo vs. Tokpo: round 2<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Of course, if we ask any Talmudic student (the only person who would be looking for this book in the first place) he would say 'Tokfo kohen' because that is the way it is pronounced/mispronounced in yeshivot<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>But then, we're not doing this for the readers as much for our own uniformity…<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:black'>Elhanan<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:black'>Elhanan Adler</span><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><br>Email: <a href="mailto:elhanana@savion.huji.ac.il">elhanana@savion.huji.ac.il</a><br>Mobile tel.: 972-54-6829657<br>Tel. (NLI) 972-74-7336224<br>Tel. (home) 972-2-6515977<br>Fax (home): 972-2-6517129<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> Heb-naco [<a href="mailto:heb-naco-bounces+elhanana=savion.huji.ac.il@lists.osu.edu">mailto:heb-naco-bounces+elhanana=savion.huji.ac.il@lists.osu.edu</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Barry Walfish<br><b>Sent:</b> Thursday, July 28, 2016 8:24 AM<br><b>To:</b> Hebrew Name Authority Funnel<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Heb-NACO] Tekafo vs. Tokpo: round 2<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>Actually, the second word is tokef, a noun, meaning force or validity. Takef is an adjective, not relevant here. <o:p></o:p></span></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>Tokpo = ha-tokef shelo, its force, etc.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>The first case, is as Jasmin says, the verb takaf with the third person pronominal suffix-- tekafo = takaf oto. As Jay says, this is a term from the Talmud Bava Metsia 6b = tekafo kohen.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>Barry<o:p></o:p></span></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'><br>Barry Dov Walfish, Ph.D.<br>Judaica Specialist<br>University of Toronto Libraries <br>Toronto, ON M5S 1A5<br>Canada<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><span style='color:black'><hr size=2 width="100%" align=center></span></div><div id=divRpF332839><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'> Heb-naco [heb-naco-bounces@lists.osu.edu] on behalf of Shinohara, Jasmin [jshino@pobox.upenn.edu]<br><b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, July 27, 2016 2:25 PM<br><b>To:</b> Hebrew Name Authority Funnel; <a href="mailto:rtalbott@library.berkeley.edu">rtalbott@library.berkeley.edu</a><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Heb-NACO] Tekafo vs. Tokpo: round 2</span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>There are 2 different words: the first is </span><span class=word><span lang=HE dir=RTL style='color:black'>תָּקַף </span></span><span dir=LTR></span><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><span dir=LTR></span>(patah under </span><span lang=HE dir=RTL style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>ק</span><span dir=LTR></span><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><span dir=LTR></span>) and the second is </span><span lang=HE dir=RTL style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>תָּקֵף</span><span lang=HE dir=RTL style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'> </span><span dir=LTR></span><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><span dir=LTR></span>(tsere under </span><span lang=HE dir=RTL style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>ק</span><span dir=LTR></span><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><span dir=LTR></span>). The first means “to attack”; the second means “valid, or in force” (as in a passport). The inclination of the first is tekafo (as in, “he attacked”); the second is tokpo (as in “the passport/milk/etc. has expired”). </span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>In the context of the Gemara the term being used is the first (the Kohen took the first-born animal by force), hence the word is to be vocalized as teḳafo. See also E-Sh. and Alkalay (examples given under the first term is “yitsro toḳfo” “teḳafah yistrah”; an example under the second term is “pag tokpo”).</span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'> Heb-naco [<a href="mailto:heb-naco-bounces+jshino=pobox.upenn.edu@lists.osu.edu">mailto:heb-naco-bounces+jshino=pobox.upenn.edu@lists.osu.edu</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Heidi G Lerner<br><b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, July 27, 2016 1:19 PM<br><b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:rtalbott@library.berkeley.edu">rtalbott@library.berkeley.edu</a>; Hebrew Name Authority Funnel<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Heb-NACO] Tekafo vs. Tokpo: round 2</span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p><div id=divtagdefaultwrapper><p style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'>If we go with "tokfo/tokpo" vocalization rather than "tekafo" wouldn't the "</span><span lang=HE dir=RTL style='color:black'>פ</span><span dir=LTR></span><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'><span dir=LTR></span>" get a dagesh since it comes after a quiescent "</span><span lang=HE dir=RTL style='color:black'>שבא״</span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'> </span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p style='margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white'><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'>making it toḳpo</span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'> </span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p><div id=Signature><div id=divtagdefaultwrapper><p style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'>Heidi G. Lerner</span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'>Metadata Librarian for Hebraica and Judaica</span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'>Metadata Dept.</span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'>Stanford University Libraries</span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'>Stanford, CA 94305-6004</span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'>ph: 650-725-9953</span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'>fax: 650-725-1120</span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'>e-mail: <a href="mailto:lerner@stanford.edu" target="_blank">lerner@stanford.edu</a></span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white'><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'> </span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p><div><div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center;background:white'><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'><hr size=3 width="98%" align=center></span></div><div id=divRplyFwdMsg><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'> Heidi G Lerner<br><b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, July 27, 2016 10:15 AM<br><b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:rtalbott@library.berkeley.edu" target="_blank">rtalbott@library.berkeley.edu</a>; Hebrew Name Authority Funnel<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Heb-NACO] Tekafo vs. Tokpo: round 2</span><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'> </span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'> </span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><div id=divtagdefaultwrapper><p style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'>I just checked Jastrow and it has "toḳfo"</span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'> </span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p><div id=Signature><div id=divtagdefaultwrapper><p style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'>Heidi G. Lerner</span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'>Metadata Librarian for Hebraica and Judaica</span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'>Metadata Dept.</span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'>Stanford University Libraries</span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'>Stanford, CA 94305-6004</span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'>ph: 650-725-9953</span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'>fax: 650-725-1120</span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'>e-mail: <a href="mailto:lerner@stanford.edu" target="_blank">lerner@stanford.edu</a></span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white'><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'> </span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p><div><div><div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center;background:white'><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'><hr size=3 width="98%" align=center></span></div><div id="x_divRplyFwdMsg"><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'> Heb-naco <<a href="mailto:heb-naco-bounces@lists.osu.edu" target="_blank">heb-naco-bounces@lists.osu.edu</a>> on behalf of Jay Rovner <<a href="mailto:JAROVNER@JTSA.EDU" target="_blank">JAROVNER@JTSA.EDU</a>><br><b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, July 27, 2016 9:41 AM<br><b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:rtalbott@library.berkeley.edu" target="_blank">rtalbott@library.berkeley.edu</a>; Hebrew Name Authority Funnel<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Heb-NACO] Tekafo vs. Tokpo: round 2</span><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'> </span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'> </span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'>Check out the phrase and its source in a Talmudic sugya in, e.g., Hebrew Wikipedia, where it is clear that the verbal construction is tekafo<br>JR<br><br>Jay Rovner, PhD<br>Manuscript Bibliographer<br>The Library of The Jewish Theological Seminary<br>3080 Broadway<br>New York City, New York 10027<br>(212) 678-8045<br><a href="mailto:jarovner@JTSA.edu" target="_blank">jarovner@JTSA.edu</a><br><br><br>-----Original Message-----<br>From: Heb-naco [<a href="mailto:heb-naco-bounces+jarovner=jtsa.edu@lists.osu.edu" target="_blank">mailto:heb-naco-bounces+jarovner=jtsa.edu@lists.osu.edu</a>] On Behalf Of Robert M. TALBOTT<br>Sent: Wednesday, July 27, 2016 12:24 PM<br>To: Hebrew Name Authority Funnel<br>Subject: [Heb-NACO] Tekafo vs. Tokpo: round 2<br><br>Folks:<br><br>I have a book here by Shabtai ben Meir, ha-Kohen, 1621-1662 where the first word in the title is tav-kuf-peh-vav. The last time this book came up, about ten years ago (maybe longer), the decree was that the form we were to use was "tekafo" in this particular instance.<br><br>Anyhow, I checked in the 2007 EJ, Lo and behold, they cite the book as "Tokfo kohen." Discounting the "f" (Ester 10:2 places a dagesh in the peh), it looks to me like this is an authoritative stance that we didn't have the last time the question was asked.<br><br>So: tekafo or tokpo?<br><br>Bob<br><br><br><br><br>--<br>Bob Talbott<br><br>Principal cataloger/Hebraica cataloger<br><br>UC Berkeley<br><br>250 Moffitt<br><br>Berkeley, CA 94720<br><br>I'm just mad about Saffron<br>_______________________________________________<br>Heb-naco mailing list<br><a href="mailto:Heb-naco@lists.osu.edu" target="_blank">Heb-naco@lists.osu.edu</a><br><a href="https://lists.osu.edu/mailman/listinfo/heb-naco" target="_blank">https://lists.osu.edu/mailman/listinfo/heb-naco</a><br>_______________________________________________<br>Heb-naco mailing list<br><a href="mailto:Heb-naco@lists.osu.edu" target="_blank">Heb-naco@lists.osu.edu</a><br><a href="https://lists.osu.edu/mailman/listinfo/heb-naco" target="_blank">https://lists.osu.edu/mailman/listinfo/heb-naco</a></span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></body></html>