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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:JA">Thanks for weighing in, Joan. Consult a Spanish speaker it is, then. Thoughts about the aleph diacritic? The</span><span lang="HE" dir="RTL" style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">ואי
</span><span dir="LTR"></span><span lang="HE" style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:JA"><span dir="LTR"></span> </span><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">in the chart</span><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:JA">
and footnote? <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:JA"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:JA">Best wishes, Jasmin</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:JA"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""> Heb-naco [mailto:heb-naco-bounces@lists.osu.edu]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Joan Biella<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Saturday, July 02, 2016 8:59 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Hebrew Name Authority Funnel<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Heb-NACO] Ladino romanization help<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">Just one quick remark from a lurker--no, I don't think there's any way to know whether it's "segun" or "sigun" except by comparison with Spanish. And, as a person who's never studied Ladino per se, I don't
even know that "segun" is closer to real Ladino pronunciation than "sigun" is! But since it's much easier in most places to find a Spanish speaker or information about Spanish than it is about Ladino, the instruction to imitate Spanish vowels is easier to
follow than any other we might make. An alternative might have been to instruct romanizers to omit vowels altogether (at least for unvocalized texts), as is done in the Judeo-Arabic table, but believe me that alternative, though SAFE, is quite unpopular too!<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Joan<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">On Fri, Jul 1, 2016 at 10:46 AM, Shinohara, Jasmin <<a href="mailto:jshino@pobox.upenn.edu" target="_blank">jshino@pobox.upenn.edu</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Lisa’s suggested Romanization is below. (I decided to respond to my own email so as to keep the conversation in one
thread.) </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Lisa, you are right that the title page lacks diacritical marks with the exceptions of the apostrophes after the
</span><span lang="HE" dir="RTL" style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">ש</span><span lang="HE" dir="RTL" style="color:#1F497D">
</span><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">of </span><span lang="HE" dir="RTL" style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">קיש'וטי</span><span lang="HE" dir="RTL" style="color:#1F497D">
</span><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">and </span>
<span lang="HE" dir="RTL" style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">ג</span><span lang="HE" dir="RTL" style="color:#1F497D">
</span><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">of </span><span lang="HE" dir="RTL" style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">מאנג'ה</span><span lang="HE" dir="RTL" style="color:#1F497D">
</span><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">and </span>
<span lang="HE" dir="RTL" style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">ג'ואן</span><span dir="LTR"></span><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><span dir="LTR"></span>. Do we assume that the former should be interpreted as
a </span><span dir="RTL"></span><span lang="HE" dir="RTL" style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><span dir="RTL"></span>̇ג</span><span lang="HE" dir="RTL" style="color:#1F497D">
</span><span dir="LTR"></span><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><span dir="LTR"></span>(superior dot) and not a
</span><span lang="HE" dir="RTL" style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">ג'</span><span lang="HE" dir="RTL" style="color:#1F497D">
</span><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">in order to Romanize based on the parallel Mancha? Also, I now see in the
<a href="https://www.loc.gov/catdir/cpso/romanization/ladino.pdf" target="_blank">
chart</a> that </span><span lang="HE" dir="RTL" style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">ואי</span><span dir="LTR"></span><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><span dir="LTR"></span>* is romanized as a ‘we’; hence, “ḳompweśṭo”
and “Ḳweśṭah”; but the example of </span><span lang="HE" dir="RTL" style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">אגואה</span><span lang="HE" dir="RTL" style="color:#1F497D">
</span><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">in the chart is also romanized with a ‘w’ (“agwah”); should</span><span lang="HE" dir="RTL" style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">ג'ואן
</span><span dir="LTR"></span><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><span dir="LTR"></span> then be “Jwan”?
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Other than Heidi’s use of ‘yo’ for
</span><span lang="HE" dir="RTL" style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">יאו</span><span dir="LTR"></span><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><span dir="LTR"></span>, and your use of ‘we’ for
</span><span lang="HE" dir="RTL" style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">ואי</span><span lang="HE" dir="RTL" style="color:#1F497D">
</span><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">and non-use of the aleph diacritic, both of you agree on the Romanization based on the Spanish. In other words, there is NO consistency for vav’s and yod’s (this is plain from the Romanization
chart, too). Once that’s established, then, one can deduce from the English “<i>I</i>njeniozo”,“ pr<i>I</i>merah”, and “<i>E</i>dision”; but for non-Spanish speakers (when there is no parallel Spanish provided), is there a way to know when a single vav is
a ‘u’ or an ‘o’ (“ḳapit<i>U</i>loś” and not “ḳapit<i>O</i>loś”; “seg<i>U</i>n” and not “seg<i>O</i>n”)? When
</span><span lang="HE" dir="RTL" style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">אי</span><span lang="HE" dir="RTL" style="color:#1F497D">
</span><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">is an ‘i’ or an ‘e’ (“aljam<i>I</i>adah” and not “aljam<i>E</i>adah”)? And when a single yod is an ‘e’ not an ‘i’ (“s<i>E</i>gun” and not “s<i>I</i>gun”)? Or is my only option to consult
with a Spanish speaker?</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Joan (I know you’re lurking
</span><span style="font-family:Wingdings;color:#1F497D">J</span><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">), other Ladino mavens, what are your respective takes? Is the aleph diacritic only for use in Hebrew-origin words (per the one
example in the Romanization chart)? Lisa, do you agree that </span><span lang="HE" dir="RTL" style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">יאו</span><span lang="HE" dir="RTL" style="color:#1F497D">
</span><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">is ‘yo’? Heidi, to you agree with “ḳompweśṭo” and “Ḳweśṭah”? (And is hidalgo a proper noun to be capitalized, as in your suggested romanization, or was that a typo?) </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Thank you all for bearing with me. Best wishes for a
</span><span lang="HE" dir="RTL" style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">שבת שלום</span><span lang="HE" dir="RTL" style="color:#1F497D">
</span><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">and safe and happy 4<sup>th</sup> of July, Jasmin</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">*Joan, Heidi: Note 2, directed from
</span><span lang="HE" dir="RTL" style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">ואי</span><span lang="HE" dir="RTL" style="color:#1F497D">
</span><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">in the chart, directly contradicts the example given: the note says that at the beginning of a word
</span><span lang="HE" dir="RTL" style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">ואי</span><span lang="HE" dir="RTL" style="color:#1F497D">
</span><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">is always preceded by a
</span><span lang="HE" dir="RTL" style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">ג</span><span dir="LTR"></span><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><span dir="LTR"></span>, e.g.
</span><span lang="HE" dir="RTL" style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">גואירטה</span><span dir="LTR"></span><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><span dir="LTR"></span>, whereas the example given shows the
</span><span lang="HE" dir="RTL" style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">ואי</span><span lang="HE" dir="RTL" style="color:#1F497D">
</span><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">preceded by a
</span><span lang="HE" dir="RTL" style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">מ</span><span dir="LTR"></span><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><span dir="LTR"></span>, e.g.
</span><span lang="HE" dir="RTL" style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">מואיס</span><span dir="LTR"></span><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><span dir="LTR"></span>. Am I missing something, or does the note need
to be edited?</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""> Lisa Rohde [mailto:<a href="mailto:lirohde@JTSA.EDU" target="_blank">lirohde@JTSA.EDU</a>]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, June 30, 2016 12:25 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Shinohara, Jasmin<br>
<b>Cc:</b> Cliff Miller<br>
<b>Subject:</b> FW: Ladino romanization help</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">Dear Jasmin,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="color:#1F497D">Cliff Miller forwarded your Ladino help request to me, since I’ve been working on Ladino cataloguing lately. I’ve been working with a table of ALA/LC
Ladino romanizations (see </span><a href="http://www.loc.gov/catdir/cpso/romanization/ladino.pdf" target="_blank">http://www.loc.gov/catdir/cpso/romanization/ladino.pdf</a>). I would treat the vowels as being the same as the Spanish ones with
<span lang="HE" dir="RTL" style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">א </span><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">transliterated as a diacritic only in Hebrew-origin words.
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif""> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">The notes I see suggest that the answer to your question #4 (</span>ḳompo’eśṭo or ḳompueśṭo? Or ḳompu’eśṭo?<span style="color:#1F497D">)
should be </span>ḳompweśṭo<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Gimel has several transliterations, depending on context (and the orthography in the source may or may not have the diacritics indicated – per my husband, Rabbi Ira Rohde who has
studied Ladino). Where you clearly have the parallel of Mancha, I’d go with that rather than Manjah as you had.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">So my version would be
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">El injeniozo hidalgo Don Ḳishoṭe de lah Manchah : ǂb (ḳapituloś. 1-8) / ǂc ḳompweśṭo por Migel de Servanṭeś Śaaṿedrah ; ṿerśion aljamiadah por Pilar Romeu-Fere, śegun
lah primerah edision de Madrid de Juan de lah Ḳweśṭah (1605).<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Good luck,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Monotype Corsiva";color:#1F497D">Lisa Rohde</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas;color:#1F497D">Library, Processing Unit K701</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas;color:#1F497D">Jewish Theological Seminary of America</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas;color:#1F497D">3080 Broadway</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas;color:#1F497D">New York, NY 10027</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="color:#1F497D"><a href="tel:%28212%29%20678-8044" target="_blank">(212) 678-8044</a> (M-Th 9:30-4)</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""> Cliff Miller
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, June 29, 2016 10:44 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Lisa Rohde<br>
<b>Subject:</b> FW: Ladino romanization help</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="color:#1F497D">Thought you would especially enjoy her dilemmas this week. Best wishes, Cliffmiller</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""> Heb-naco [mailto:<a href="mailto:heb-naco-bounces@lists.osu.edu" target="_blank">heb-naco-bounces@lists.osu.edu</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Shinohara, Jasmin<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, June 30, 2016 7:16 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Hebrew Name Authority Funnel; <a href="mailto:lirohde@JTSA.EDU" target="_blank">
lirohde@JTSA.EDU</a>; <a href="mailto:lerner@stanford.edu" target="_blank">lerner@stanford.edu</a></span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<b>Cc:</b> <a href="mailto:galron1@osu.edu" target="_blank">galron1@osu.edu</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Heb-NACO] Ladino romanization help<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Sorry, our email has been down at work and I’m just catching up with emails now.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">So
</span><span lang="HE" dir="RTL" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">יאו</span><span lang="HE" dir="RTL" style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D">
</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">is ‘yo’ (“injen<i>YO</i>zo”, “Rome<i>YO</i>”, “edis<i>YO</i>n”)? Should it not then be “ṿerś<i>Y</i>on”? (and should this kelal be added to the chart?)
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">For other letters, though, how can I know just based on the Romanization table, when
</span><span lang="HE" dir="RTL" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">אי</span><span lang="HE" dir="RTL" style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D">
</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">is ‘i’ (as in “<i>I</i>njenyozo”) and when it’s ‘e’ (as in “ḳompuʾ<i>E</i>śṭo”)? In the case of names, I can determine a
</span><span lang="HE" dir="RTL" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">י</span><span lang="HE" dir="RTL" style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D">
</span><span dir="LTR"></span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><span dir="LTR"></span>(yod) based on found Romanization (e.g. “Ḳ<i>I</i>shoṭe” and not “Ḳ<i>E</i>shoṭe”, “P<i>I</i>lar” and not “P<i>E</i>lar”,
etc.), but what about other words (e.g., “aljam<i>I</i>adah” and not (“aljam<i>E</i>adah”)? Also, when do I add the aleph diacritic (“ḳompu<i>ʾ</i>eśṭo”, “Śa<i>ʾ</i>aṿedrah”), and when not (“aljamiadah”)? And when is a
</span><span lang="HE" dir="RTL" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">ו</span><span lang="HE" dir="RTL" style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D">
</span><span dir="LTR"></span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><span dir="LTR"></span>(vav) a ‘u’ and when an ‘o’ (“ḳ<i>O</i>mp<i>U</i>ʾeśṭ<i>O</i>”, “ḳapiṭ<i>U</i>l<i>O</i>s”)?
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Or is my only hope to consult a Spanish speaker for the vowels? (They couldn’t advise on the diactric,
though.)</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Lisa Rohde (at JTS) emailed me directly; I will forward her response and my follow-up questions separately
so as to avoid an overly lengthy email…</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""> Heb-naco [<a href="mailto:heb-naco-bounces+jshino=pobox.upenn.edu@lists.osu.edu" target="_blank">mailto:heb-naco-bounces+jshino=pobox.upenn.edu@lists.osu.edu</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Heidi G Lerner<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, June 30, 2016 11:58 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Hebrew Name Authority Funnel<br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a href="mailto:galron1@osu.edu" target="_blank">galron1@osu.edu</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Heb-NACO] Ladino romanization help</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">Dear Jasmin,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">Here is the romanization that I come up with based on the ALA/LC Romanization table:</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">El injenyozo Hidalgo Don Ḳishoṭe de lah Manjah :ǂbḳapiṭulos 1-8 /ǂcḳompuʾeśṭo por Migel de Servanṭes Śaʾaṿedrah : ṿerśion aljamiadah por Pilar Romeyo-Fero śegun
lah primerah edisyon de Madrid de Juan deh lah Ḳuesṭah (1605).</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">.Best, Heidi</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">Heidi G. Lerner</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">Metadata Librarian for Hebraica and Judaica</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">Metadata Dept.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">Stanford University Libraries</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">Stanford, CA 94305-6004</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">ph:
<a href="tel:650-725-9953" target="_blank">650-725-9953</a></span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">fax:
<a href="tel:650-725-1120" target="_blank">650-725-1120</a></span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">e-mail:
<a href="mailto:lerner@stanford.edu" target="_blank">lerner@stanford.edu</a></span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"> Heb-naco <<a href="mailto:heb-naco-bounces+lerner=stanford.edu@lists.osu.edu" target="_blank">heb-naco-bounces+lerner=stanford.edu@lists.osu.edu</a>>
on behalf of Shinohara, Jasmin <<a href="mailto:jshino@pobox.upenn.edu" target="_blank">jshino@pobox.upenn.edu</a>><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, June 28, 2016 8:26 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Hebrew Name Authority Funnel<br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a href="mailto:galron1@osu.edu" target="_blank">galron1@osu.edu</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [Heb-NACO] Ladino romanization help</span><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p style="background:white"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">Hi, I’m struggling to understand the vowel Romanization for Ladino: when does an
</span><span lang="HE" dir="RTL" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black">א</span><span lang="HE" dir="RTL" style="font-size:11.0pt;color:black">
</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">simply get transcribed as an ‘a’ and when with a diacritical aleph; when there’s no vocalization, how does one know when the
</span><span lang="HE" dir="RTL" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black">ו</span><span lang="HE" dir="RTL" style="font-size:11.0pt;color:black">
</span><span dir="LTR"></span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"><span dir="LTR"></span>(vav) is an ‘o’ or a ‘u’? Is an
</span><span lang="HE" dir="RTL" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black">אי</span><span lang="HE" dir="RTL" style="font-size:11.0pt;color:black">
</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">always ‘e’, or sometimes ‘i’, depending on the context? The same for a
</span><span lang="HE" dir="RTL" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black">י</span><span lang="HE" dir="RTL" style="font-size:11.0pt;color:black">
</span><span dir="LTR"></span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"><span dir="LTR"></span>(yod) -- when there’s no vocalization, how does one know when it’s an ‘e’ and when it’s an ‘i’? For those of us who don’t know
Spanish, it’s rather a toss-up.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="background:white"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="background:white"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">The case I have in hand is
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p align="right" style="text-align:right;background:white"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p align="right" style="text-align:right;background:white"><span lang="HE" dir="RTL" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black">איל אינג'יניאוזו הידלגו דון קיש'וטי די לה מאנג'ה</span><span lang="HE" dir="RTL" style="font-size:11.0pt;color:black">
</span><span dir="LTR"></span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"><span dir="LTR"></span>: ǂb
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p align="right" style="text-align:right;background:white"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">(</span><span lang="HE" dir="RTL" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black">קאפיטולוש. 1-8</span><span dir="LTR"></span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"><span dir="LTR"></span>)
/ ǂc</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p align="right" style="text-align:right;background:white"><span lang="HE" dir="RTL" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black">קומפואישטו פור מיגיל די סירב'אנטיש שאאוידרה ; וירשיאון אלג'אמיאדה פור פילאר רומיאו-פ'ירי, שיגון לה פרימירה
אידיסיאון די מאדריד די ג'ואן די לה קואישטה (1605</span><span dir="LTR"></span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"><span dir="LTR"></span>)</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="background:white"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="background:white"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">Though there’s no vocalization on the
</span><span lang="HE" dir="RTL" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black">ש</span><span dir="LTR"></span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"><span dir="LTR"></span>’s, given the context
I know they’re meant to be ‘sin’ (other than in </span><span lang="HE" dir="RTL" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black">קיש'וטי</span><span dir="LTR"></span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"><span dir="LTR"></span>)
; but otherwise, do I go for consistency when Romanizing the vavs and yods, or, especially in the case of names, transcribe what makes sense? This is my current stab at it:</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="background:white"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="background:white"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">El enjene’ozo hidalgo Don Ḳeshoṭe de lah Manjah : ǂb (ḳapitoloś. 1-8) / ǂc ḳompo’eśṭo por Megel de Servanṭeś Śa’aṿedrah ; ṿerśe’on aljameadah
por Pelar Romeo-Fere, śegon lah premerah edeseon de Madrid de Joan de lah Ḳoeśṭah (1605).</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="background:white"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="background:white"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">But in this case I’ve got an added t.p. in Spanish:</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="background:white"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="background:white"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">El ingenioso hidalgo Don Quijote de la Mancha : ǂb (capítulos 1-8) / ǂc compuesto por Miguel de Cervantes Saavedra ; versión aljamiada por Pilar Romeu
Ferré según la primera edición de Madrid de Juan de la Cuesta (1605).</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="background:white"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="background:white"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">Based on the Spanish I’m second-guessing some the romanized words:
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin-left:.5in;background:white"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">1.</span><span style="font-size:7.0pt;color:black">
</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">Should it be enjene’ozo or injeneozo? Or injene’ozo? Or injeni’ozo?</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin-left:.5in;background:white"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">2.</span><span style="font-size:7.0pt;color:black">
</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">Is it Ḳeshoṭe or Ḳishoṭe?</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin-left:.5in;background:white"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">3.</span><span style="font-size:7.0pt;color:black">
</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">ḳapitoloś. or ḳapituloś. (the full stop appears on the source)</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin-left:.5in;background:white"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">4.</span><span style="font-size:7.0pt;color:black">
</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">ḳompo’eśṭo or ḳompueśṭo? Or ḳompu’eśṭo?</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin-left:.5in;background:white"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">5.</span><span style="font-size:7.0pt;color:black">
</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">Megel or Migel?</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin-left:.5in;background:white"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">6.</span><span style="font-size:7.0pt;color:black">
</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">Śa’aṿedrah or Śaaṿedrah?</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin-left:.5in;background:white"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">7.</span><span style="font-size:7.0pt;color:black">
</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">ṿerśe'on or ṿerśion? Or ṿerśi’on?</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin-left:.5in;background:white"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">8.</span><span style="font-size:7.0pt;color:black">
</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">aljameadah or aljamiadah? Or aljami’adah?</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin-left:.5in;background:white"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">9.</span><span style="font-size:7.0pt;color:black">
</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">Pelar or Pilar?</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin-left:.5in;background:white"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">10.</span><span style="font-size:7.0pt;color:black">
</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">Romeo or Romeu? Or Rome’u?</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin-left:.5in;background:white"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">11.</span><span style="font-size:7.0pt;color:black">
</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">śegon or śegun?</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin-left:.5in;background:white"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">12.</span><span style="font-size:7.0pt;color:black">
</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">premerah or primerah?</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin-left:.5in;background:white"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">13.</span><span style="font-size:7.0pt;color:black">
</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">edeseon or edision? Or edisi’on?</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin-left:.5in;background:white"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">14.</span><span style="font-size:7.0pt;color:black">
</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">Jo’an or Juan? Or Ju’an?</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin-left:.5in;background:white"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">15.</span><span style="font-size:7.0pt;color:black">
</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">Ḳo’eśṭah or Ḳueśṭah? Or Ḳu’eśṭah?</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="background:white"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="background:white"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">Please advise. Thanks!! Jasmin</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="background:white"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="background:white"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">---</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="background:white"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">Jasmin Shinohara</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="background:white"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">Hebraica Cataloging Librarian</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="background:white"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">University of Pennsylvania</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="background:white"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">Van Pelt-Dietrich Library Center</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="background:white"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">3420 Walnut Street</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="background:white"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">Philadelphia, PA 19104-6206</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="background:white"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">T.
<a href="tel:215-746-6397" target="_blank">215-746-6397</a></span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="background:white"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">F.
<a href="tel:215-573-9610" target="_blank">215-573-9610</a></span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="background:white"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"><a href="mailto:jshino@upenn.edu" target="_blank">jshino@upenn.edu</a></span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="background:white"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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