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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:JA">Very good. Thanks again for the clarification!<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""> Heb-naco [mailto:heb-naco-bounces@lists.osu.edu]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Heidi G Lerner<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, May 05, 2016 3:44 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Hebrew Name Authority Funnel<br>
<b>Cc:</b> Shtuhl, Smadar<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Heb-NACO] recording hebrew date in vernacular field<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">I think your confusion is based on the language of the manual. Instead of "non-roman bibliograpica record" we should have said "non-roman parallel field". We are not talking
about any record that do not have "$beng" in the 040 field.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">This will need to be fixed as we work on the update to the current version (in process). Yosi's e-mail just sent has the correct practice.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">Heidi G. Lerner<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">Metadata Librarian for Hebraica and Judaica<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">Metadata Dept.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">Stanford University Libraries<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">Stanford, CA 94305-6004<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">ph: 650-725-9953<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">fax: 650-725-1120<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">e-mail:
<a href="mailto:lerner@stanford.edu">lerner@stanford.edu</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"> Heb-naco <<a href="mailto:heb-naco-bounces+lerner=stanford.edu@lists.osu.edu">heb-naco-bounces+lerner=stanford.edu@lists.osu.edu</a>>
on behalf of Shinohara, Jasmin <<a href="mailto:jshino@pobox.upenn.edu">jshino@pobox.upenn.edu</a>><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, May 5, 2016 12:10 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Hebrew Name Authority Funnel<br>
<b>Cc:</b> Shtuhl, Smadar<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Heb-NACO] recording hebrew date in vernacular field</span><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p style="background:white"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Very good, Heidi, thank you for explaining the varied practice we see in bib records. You know I’m a fan of consistency, but I guess I’ll leave what
I find as is (and do as PCC when creating originals…)</span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style="background:white"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style="background:white"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">A follow-up question regarding numerals and dates in titles: HCM2, p.35, says LC practice is “Hebrew letters are retained on the non-roman bibliographic
record…” Is that the same for the vernacular field in roman (i.e. 040 $b eng, aka, our) bib records? The examples show a source and a Romanization, but not the parallel vernacular field. E.g. the source is
</span><span lang="HE" dir="RTL" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">éøåùìéí áúù"ç</span><span dir="LTR"></span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><span dir="LTR"></span> and the
romanized 245 is Yerushalayim be-708 (with the alternate 246 Yerushalayim be-Tashah); is the vernacular
</span><span lang="HE" dir="RTL" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">éøåùìéí áúù"ç</span><span dir="LTR"></span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><span dir="LTR"></span> or
</span><span lang="HE" dir="RTL" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">éøåùìéí á-708</span><span dir="LTR"></span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><span dir="LTR"></span>? Again,
I see mixed practice. </span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style="background:white"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style="background:white"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Thanks again, Jasmin</span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style="background:white"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p style="background:white"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style="background:white"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black"> Heb-naco [<a href="mailto:heb-naco-bounces@lists.osu.edu">mailto:heb-naco-bounces@lists.osu.edu</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Heidi G Lerner<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, May 05, 2016 2:27 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Hebrew Name Authority Funnel<br>
<b>Cc:</b> Shtuhl, Smadar<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Heb-NACO] recording hebrew date in vernacular field</span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p style="background:white"><span style="color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">Hi Jasmin,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">You have a choice in the situation. If you choose to code it for BIBCO you will have to follow the PCC Guidelines for Creating Bibliographic Records in Multiple Character
Sets. It appears that any update to the 2010 document has yet to appear so that is what PCC catalogers have to work with. In other words you will have to substitute "Arabic" numbers for the Hebrew letters of the date. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">LC's policy is different as you point out. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">RDA Hebraica Cataloging functino is presenting the options for Hebraica catalogers. Catalogers at LC must use Hebrew letters in the vernacular field; PCC catalogers have
to substitute Arabic numbers; non-PCC and non-LC catalogers can choose to do what they want. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">I know that we have discussed this issue in the past and I honestly can't remember if our community was engaged by the task force working on preparing the next version
of the above document to conform to RDA rules. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">Sharon Benamou was a member of that committee. I will try and get in touch with her to find out the status of that group. I believe that Peter Fletcher is the head of that
group.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">I hope that this helps clarify the different options available to you.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">If the issue has not been brought to the attention of the task force I will add it to our agenda for our June 19th meeting in Charleston.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">Meanwhile your edition statement should be recorded as <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">Mahadurah rishonah<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style="background:white"><span lang="HE" dir="RTL" style="color:black">îäãåøä</span><span dir="LTR"></span><span lang="HE" style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"><span dir="LTR"></span>
</span><span lang="HE" dir="RTL" style="color:black">øàùåðä</span><span dir="LTR"></span><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"><span dir="LTR"></span> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">since that is how it appears your resource (RDA 2.5.1.4).<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">Best, Heidi<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">Heidi G. Lerner<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">Metadata Librarian for Hebraica and Judaica<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">Metadata Dept.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">Stanford University Libraries<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">Stanford, CA 94305-6004<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">ph: 650-725-9953<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">fax: 650-725-1120<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">e-mail:
<a href="mailto:lerner@stanford.edu">lerner@stanford.edu</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"> </span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p style="background:white"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"> Heb-naco <<a href="mailto:heb-naco-bounces+lerner=stanford.edu@lists.osu.edu">heb-naco-bounces+lerner=stanford.edu@lists.osu.edu</a>>
on behalf of Shinohara, Jasmin <<a href="mailto:jshino@pobox.upenn.edu">jshino@pobox.upenn.edu</a>><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, May 5, 2016 10:44 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Hebrew Name Authority Funnel<br>
<b>Cc:</b> Shtuhl, Smadar<br>
<b>Subject:</b> [Heb-NACO] recording hebrew date in vernacular field</span><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">
</span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"> </span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p style="background:white"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">Hi all,</span><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style="background:white"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"> </span><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style="background:white"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">I’m trying to understand how to best parse HCM2’s recommendation vis a vis the PCC practice for Alternative (1<sup>st</sup>) … : 2.5.2, p. 16. “If the
date of publication is represented only in Hebrew letters, the numbers must be rendered in Western-style Arabic numerals.” One example is then given for “715 [1954 or 1955]” in both the vernacular and romanized 264 fields. (HCM2, p. 37) Before that, though,
the LC practice for Alternative (1<sup>st</sup>) states: … generally supply non-Latin scripts for the languages/scripts …: …Hebrew, Yiddish, … . If following minimal level cataloguing guidelines, the records for these languages/scripts may be fully romanized.”
(HCM2, p. 36-37)</span><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style="background:white"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"> </span><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style="background:white"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">I have in front of me the following in the source:</span><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style="background:white"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"> </span><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style="background:white"><span lang="HE" dir="RTL" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black">îäãåøä øàùåðä, àãø á', úùò"ã, 2014</span><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style="background:white"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"> </span><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style="background:white"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">We take dates following ed. statements to be pub. dates, but in this case our date of publication is NOT “represented only in Hebrew letters”, so do we
follow the PCC practice on 2.5.2 and render the date in Arabic numerals? Also, as per the LC practice, we are to supply the non-Latin scripts. But we are following more than minimal level cataloguing, so should they be romanized?</span><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style="background:white"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"> </span><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style="background:white"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">My vernacular 250 is
</span><span lang="HE" dir="RTL" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black">îäãåøä 1.</span><span dir="LTR"></span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"><span dir="LTR"></span>; is the vernacular
264_1 </span><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style="background:white"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"> </span><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style="background:white"><span lang="HE" dir="RTL" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black">àãø 2., 774 = 2014</span><span dir="LTR"></span><span lang="HE" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"><span dir="LTR"></span>
</span><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style="background:white"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">or</span><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style="background:white"><span lang="HE" dir="RTL" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black">àãø á' úùò"ã = 2014</span><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style="background:white"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"> </span><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style="background:white"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">(The romanized 264_1 is Adar 2., 774 [March 2014] = 2014, with fixed fields DtSt=e, Date 1=2014, Date 2=03.)</span><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style="background:white"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"> </span><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style="background:white"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">Please advise. Thanks, Jasmin</span><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style="background:white"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"> </span><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style="background:white"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">---</span><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style="background:white"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">Jasmin Shinohara</span><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style="background:white"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">Hebraica Cataloging Librarian</span><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style="background:white"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">University of Pennsylvania</span><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style="background:white"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">Van Pelt-Dietrich Library Center</span><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style="background:white"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">3420 Walnut Street</span><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style="background:white"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">Philadelphia, PA 19104-6206</span><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style="background:white"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">T. 215-746-6397</span><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style="background:white"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">F. 215-573-9610</span><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style="background:white"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"><a href="mailto:jshino@upenn.edu">jshino@upenn.edu</a></span><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style="background:white"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"> </span><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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