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<p>Yes, and from the same document, rule 4.3.4 verifies that .</p>
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<p>Heidi G. Lerner</p>
<p>Metadata Librarian for Hebraica and Judaica</p>
<p>Metadata Dept.</p>
<p>Stanford University Libraries</p>
<p>Stanford, CA 94305-6004</p>
<p>ph: 650-725-9953</p>
<p>fax: 650-725-1120</p>
<p>e-mail: lerner@stanford.edu</p>
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<div id="divRplyFwdMsg" dir="ltr"><font face="Calibri, sans-serif" color="#000000" style="font-size:11pt"><b>From:</b> Heb-naco <heb-naco-bounces+lerner=stanford.edu@lists.osu.edu> on behalf of Dickel, Geraldine <geraldine.dickel@yale.edu><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, May 5, 2016 1:14 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Hebrew Name Authority Funnel<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Heb-NACO] To Heidi L./ Jasmin Sh re.: recording Hebrew date in vernacular field</font>
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<p style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;">
>From ISBD International Standard Bibliographic Description Consolidated Edition: </p>
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A.3.2.9 When in an area or an element the same information appears in more than one language or script, the following provisions apply: When one element is recorded in more than one language or script, the information in each language or script after the first
is preceded by a space, equals sign, space ( = ). </p>
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When, in a single area, two or more elements are recorded in more than one language or script, the elements in each language or script are given together with the appropriate preceding punctuation for each element. The whole group of elements for the first
language or script recorded is preceded by punctuation appropriate to the first element and each group after the first is preceded by a space, equals sign, space ( = ).</p>
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Does this mean that we are supposed to have the space before and after the equals sign between the dates?</p>
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Jerry Anne<span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif; color:#1F497D"></span></p>
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<span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif; color:#1F497D"> </span></p>
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<b><span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> Heb-naco [mailto:heb-naco-bounces+geraldine.dickel=yale.edu@lists.osu.edu]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Kohn, Roger<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, May 05, 2016 3:41 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> 'Hebrew Name Authority Funnel' <heb-naco@lists.osu.edu><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [Heb-NACO] To Heidi L./ Jasmin Sh re.: recording Hebrew date in vernacular field</span></p>
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<span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif; color:#1F497D"> </span></p>
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<span style="font-family:"Garamond",serif; color:#1D1B11">---</span></p>
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<span style="font-family:"Garamond",serif; color:#1D1B11"> </span></p>
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<span style="font-family:"Garamond",serif; color:#1D1B11">Heidi, Jasmin,</span></p>
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<span style="font-family:"Garamond",serif; color:#1D1B11"> </span></p>
<p style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;">
<span style="font-family:"Garamond",serif; color:#1D1B11">In an email to me, dated June 02, 2014, Joan Biella, noted that “</span><span style="font-family:"Garamond",serif; color:#1E1C11">D.1.2.5 doesn't say ‘space-equals sign-space.’ Apparently you're supposed
to run the two dates up against one another<b>.”</b></span></p>
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<span style="font-family:"Garamond",serif; color:#1D1B11"> </span></p>
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<span style="font-family:"Garamond",serif; color:#1D1B11">So “</span><span lang="HE" dir="RTL" style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif; color:#1D1B11">àãø á' úùò"ã=2014</span><span dir="LTR"></span><span dir="LTR"></span><span style="font-family:"Garamond",serif; color:#1D1B11"><span dir="LTR"></span><span dir="LTR"></span>”
(with *<b>no</b>* space before and after the equal sign …)</span></p>
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<span style="font-family:"Garamond",serif; color:#1D1B11"> </span></p>
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<span style="font-family:"Garamond",serif; color:#1D1B11">All the best,</span></p>
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<span style="font-family:"Garamond",serif; color:#1D1B11">- r. </span></p>
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<span style="font-family:"Garamond",serif; color:#1D1B11">7-3997</span></p>
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<b><span style="font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif"> Heb-naco [</span><a href="mailto:heb-naco-bounces@lists.osu.edu" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;"><span style="font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">mailto:heb-naco-bounces@lists.osu.edu</span></a><span style="font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Heidi G Lerner<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, May 05, 2016 2:27 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Hebrew Name Authority Funnel<br>
<b>Cc:</b> Shtuhl, Smadar<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Heb-NACO] recording hebrew date in vernacular field</span></p>
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<p style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif; color:black">Hi Jasmin,</span></p>
<p style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif; color:black"> </span></p>
<p style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif; color:black">You have a choice in the situation. If you choose to code it for BIBCO you will have to follow the PCC Guidelines for Creating Bibliographic Records in Multiple Character
Sets. It appears that any update to the 2010 document has yet to appear so that is what PCC catalogers have to work with. In other words you will have to substitute "Arabic" numbers for the Hebrew letters of the date. </span></p>
<p style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif; color:black"> </span></p>
<p style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif; color:black">LC's policy is different as you point out. </span></p>
<p style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif; color:black"> </span></p>
<p style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif; color:black">RDA Hebraica Cataloging functino is presenting the options for Hebraica catalogers. Catalogers at LC must use Hebrew letters in the vernacular field; PCC catalogers have
to substitute Arabic numbers; non-PCC and non-LC catalogers can choose to do what they want. </span></p>
<p style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif; color:black"> </span></p>
<p style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif; color:black">I know that we have discussed this issue in the past and I honestly can't remember if our community was engaged by the task force working on preparing the next version
of the above document to conform to RDA rules. </span></p>
<p style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif; color:black"> </span></p>
<p style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif; color:black">Sharon Benamou was a member of that committee. I will try and get in touch with her to find out the status of that group. I believe that Peter Fletcher is the head of that
group.</span></p>
<p style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif; color:black"> </span></p>
<p style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif; color:black">I hope that this helps clarify the different options available to you.</span></p>
<p style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif; color:black"> </span></p>
<p style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif; color:black">If the issue has not been brought to the attention of the task force I will add it to our agenda for our June 19th meeting in Charleston.</span></p>
<p style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif; color:black"> </span></p>
<p style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif; color:black">Meanwhile your edition statement should be recorded as </span></p>
<p style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif; color:black"> </span></p>
<p style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif; color:black">Mahadurah rishonah</span></p>
<p style="background:white"><span lang="HE" dir="RTL" style="color:black">îäãåøä øàùåðä</span><span lang="HE" dir="RTL" style="color:black"> </span><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif; color:black"></span></p>
<p style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif; color:black">since that is how it appears your resource (RDA 2.5.1.4).</span></p>
<p style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif; color:#1F497D"> </span></p>
<p style="background:white"><span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif; color:#1F497D"> </span></p>
<p style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif; color:black">Best, Heidi</span></p>
<p style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif; color:black"> </span></p>
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<p style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif; color:black">Heidi G. Lerner</span></p>
<p style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif; color:black">Metadata Librarian for Hebraica and Judaica</span></p>
<p style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif; color:black">Metadata Dept.</span></p>
<p style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif; color:black">Stanford University Libraries</span></p>
<p style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif; color:black">Stanford, CA 94305-6004</span></p>
<p style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif; color:black">ph: 650-725-9953</span></p>
<p style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif; color:black">fax: 650-725-1120</span></p>
<p style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif; color:black">e-mail:
</span><a href="mailto:lerner@stanford.edu" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;"><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">lerner@stanford.edu</span></a><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif; color:black"></span></p>
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<b><span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif; color:black">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif; color:black"> Heb-naco <</span><a href="mailto:heb-naco-bounces+lerner=stanford.edu@lists.osu.edu" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;"><span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">heb-naco-bounces+lerner=stanford.edu@lists.osu.edu</span></a><span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif; color:black">>
on behalf of Shinohara, Jasmin <</span><a href="mailto:jshino@pobox.upenn.edu" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;"><span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">jshino@pobox.upenn.edu</span></a><span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif; color:black">><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, May 5, 2016 10:44 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Hebrew Name Authority Funnel<br>
<b>Cc:</b> Shtuhl, Smadar<br>
<b>Subject:</b> [Heb-NACO] recording hebrew date in vernacular field</span><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif; color:black">
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<p style="background:white"><span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif; color:black">Hi all,</span></p>
<p style="background:white"><span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif; color:black"> </span></p>
<p style="background:white"><span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif; color:black">I’m trying to understand how to best parse HCM2’s recommendation vis a vis the PCC practice for Alternative (1<sup>st</sup>) … : 2.5.2, p. 16. “If the
date of publication is represented only in Hebrew letters, the numbers must be rendered in Western-style Arabic numerals.” One example is then given for “715 [1954 or 1955]” in both the vernacular and romanized 264 fields. (HCM2, p. 37) Before that, though,
the LC practice for Alternative (1<sup>st</sup>) states: … generally supply non-Latin scripts for the languages/scripts …: …Hebrew, Yiddish, … . If following minimal level cataloguing guidelines, the records for these languages/scripts may be fully romanized.”
(HCM2, p. 36-37)</span></p>
<p style="background:white"><span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif; color:black"> </span></p>
<p style="background:white"><span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif; color:black">I have in front of me the following in the source:</span></p>
<p style="background:white"><span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif; color:black"> </span></p>
<p style="background:white"><span lang="HE" dir="RTL" style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Arial",sans-serif; color:black">îäãåøä øàùåðä, àãø á', úùò"ã, 2014</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif; color:black"></span></p>
<p style="background:white"><span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif; color:black"> </span></p>
<p style="background:white"><span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif; color:black">We take dates following ed. statements to be pub. dates, but in this case our date of publication is NOT “represented only in Hebrew letters”, so do we
follow the PCC practice on 2.5.2 and render the date in Arabic numerals? Also, as per the LC practice, we are to supply the non-Latin scripts. But we are following more than minimal level cataloguing, so should they be romanized?</span></p>
<p style="background:white"><span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif; color:black"> </span></p>
<p style="background:white"><span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif; color:black">My vernacular 250 is
</span><span lang="HE" dir="RTL" style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Arial",sans-serif; color:black">îäãåøä 1.</span><span dir="LTR"></span><span dir="LTR"></span><span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif; color:black"><span dir="LTR"></span><span dir="LTR"></span>;
is the vernacular 264_1 </span></p>
<p style="background:white"><span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif; color:black"> </span></p>
<p style="background:white"><span lang="HE" dir="RTL" style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Arial",sans-serif; color:black">àãø 2., 774 = 2014</span><span lang="HE" dir="RTL" style="font-size:11.0pt; color:black">
</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif; color:black"></span></p>
<p style="background:white"><span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif; color:black">or</span></p>
<p style="background:white"><span lang="HE" dir="RTL" style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Arial",sans-serif; color:black">àãø á' úùò"ã = 2014</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif; color:black"></span></p>
<p style="background:white"><span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif; color:black"> </span></p>
<p style="background:white"><span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif; color:black">(The romanized 264_1 is Adar 2., 774 [March 2014] = 2014, with fixed fields DtSt=e, Date 1=2014, Date 2=03.)</span></p>
<p style="background:white"><span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif; color:black"> </span></p>
<p style="background:white"><span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif; color:black">Please advise. Thanks, Jasmin</span></p>
<p style="background:white"><span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif; color:black"> </span></p>
<p style="background:white"><span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif; color:black">---</span></p>
<p style="background:white"><span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif; color:black">Jasmin Shinohara</span></p>
<p style="background:white"><span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif; color:black">Hebraica Cataloging Librarian</span></p>
<p style="background:white"><span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif; color:black">University of Pennsylvania</span></p>
<p style="background:white"><span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif; color:black">Van Pelt-Dietrich Library Center</span></p>
<p style="background:white"><span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif; color:black">3420 Walnut Street</span></p>
<p style="background:white"><span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif; color:black">Philadelphia, PA 19104-6206</span></p>
<p style="background:white"><span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif; color:black">T. 215-746-6397</span></p>
<p style="background:white"><span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif; color:black">F. 215-573-9610</span></p>
<p style="background:white"><a href="mailto:jshino@upenn.edu" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;"><span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">jshino@upenn.edu</span></a><span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif; color:black"></span></p>
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