<div dir="ltr"><span style="font-size:12.8px">If it says א - a native speaker will say Alef and so on.</span><br><div><span style="font-size:12.8px"><br></span></div><div><span style="font-size:12.8px">Kitah Alef..., Pelugah Bet...,  Dargah Kaf-vav .... Deganyah Bet .... etc.</span></div><div><span style="font-size:12.8px"><br></span></div><div><span style="font-size:12.8px">Not Kitah rishonah or Kitah ahat ... etc.</span></div><div><span style="font-size:12.8px"><br></span></div><div><span style="font-size:12.8px"><br></span></div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br clear="all"><div><div class="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><div><br></div>Joseph (Yossi) Galron-Goldschläger<br>E-Mail: <a href="mailto:galron.1@osu.edu" target="_blank">galron.1@osu.edu</a>  or <a href="mailto:jgalron@gmail.com" target="_blank">jgalron@gmail.com</a><br>Tel.: (614) 292-3362,  Fax: (614)292-1918<br>Lexicon of Modern Hebrew Literature: <a href="http://go.osu.edu/hebrewlit" target="_blank">http://go.osu.edu/hebrewlit</a><br></div></div></div>
<br><div class="gmail_quote">On Mon, Mar 28, 2016 at 9:25 AM, Neil Manel Frau-Cortes <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:nfrau@umd.edu" target="_blank">nfrau@umd.edu</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;border-right:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;padding-right:1ex">





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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Right, thanks.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Then my question is: does the absence of a geresh make the number an ordinal? In other words, when a native speaker sees an Aleph without a dot, does she tend
 to read “rishonah” instead of “ahat”? <u></u><u></u></span></p><span class="">
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><b><span style="color:black">Neil M. Frau-Cortes, Ph.D.</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:black">Judaica, Hebraica and Metadata Cataloger<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:black">McKeldin Library<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:black">University of Maryland<br>
College Park, MD 20742<br>
Phone <a href="tel:%28301%29%20405-9337" value="+13014059337" target="_blank">(301) 405-9337</a><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:black"><a href="http://nfrau@umd.edu" target="_blank">nfrau@umd.edu</a></span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""> Kolodney, Uri [<a href="mailto:kolodney@austin.utexas.edu" target="_blank">mailto:kolodney@austin.utexas.edu</a>]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, March 24, 2016 3:46 PM<span class=""><br>
<b>To:</b> Hebrew Name Authority Funnel<br>
</span><b>Cc:</b> Neil Manel Frau-Cortes<br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: [Heb-NACO] <span lang="HE" dir="RTL">כיתות ג' עד ו</span><span dir="LTR"></span><span dir="LTR"></span>'<u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">The images did not go through….. (I attach them here again for Neil)<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Anyway, yes, it does happen.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Uri<u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""> Heb-naco [<a href="mailto:heb-naco-bounces+kolodney=austin.utexas.edu@lists.osu.edu" target="_blank">mailto:heb-naco-bounces+kolodney=austin.utexas.edu@lists.osu.edu</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Kolodney, Uri<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, March 24, 2016 2:41 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Hebrew Name Authority Funnel <<a href="mailto:heb-naco@lists.osu.edu" target="_blank">heb-naco@lists.osu.edu</a>><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Heb-NACO] </span><span lang="HE" dir="RTL" style="font-size:11.0pt">כיתות ג' עד ו</span><span dir="LTR"></span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><span dir="LTR"></span>'<u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">Certainly!<br>
See </span><span lang="HE" dir="RTL" style="font-size:11.0pt">ב </span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">examples attached
</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Segoe UI Symbol","sans-serif"">😊</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><br>
Uri <br>
<br>
Sent from my Windows Phone<u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">From:
</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><a href="mailto:nfrau@umd.edu" target="_blank">Neil Manel Frau-Cortes</a></span><br>
<b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">Sent: </span>
</b><span lang="HE" style="font-size:11.0pt">‎</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">3/</span><span lang="HE" style="font-size:11.0pt">‎</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">24/</span><span lang="HE" style="font-size:11.0pt">‎</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">2016
 14:35</span><br>
<b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">To: </span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><a href="mailto:heb-naco@lists.osu.edu" target="_blank">Hebrew Name Authority Funnel</a></span><br>
<b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">Subject: </span>
</b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">Re: [Heb-NACO]
</span><span lang="HE" dir="RTL" style="font-size:11.0pt">כיתות ג' עד ו</span><span dir="LTR"></span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><span dir="LTR"></span>'</span><u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Does it happen that Hebrew numbers are written without geresh (one character) or gershayim (more than one character)?</span><u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><b><span style="color:black"> </span></b><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><b><span style="color:black">Neil M. Frau-Cortes, Ph.D.</span></b><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:black">Judaica, Hebraica and Metadata Cataloger</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:black">McKeldin Library</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:black">University of Maryland<br>
College Park, MD 20742<br>
Phone <a href="tel:%28301%29%20405-9337" value="+13014059337" target="_blank">(301) 405-9337</a></span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:black"><a href="http://nfrau@umd.edu" target="_blank">nfrau@umd.edu</a></span><u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""> Heb-naco [<a href="mailto:heb-naco-bounces+nfrau=umd.edu@lists.osu.edu" target="_blank">mailto:heb-naco-bounces+nfrau=umd.edu@lists.osu.edu</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Heidi G Lerner<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, March 23, 2016 5:40 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Hebrew Name Authority Funnel<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Heb-NACO] <span lang="HE" dir="RTL">כיתות ג' עד ו</span><span dir="LTR"></span><span dir="LTR"></span>'</span><u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
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<p style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">Hi Yosi,</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"> </span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"> I think that you should add a period after the number "1". If a Hebrew cardinal number is followed by a "'" [geresh] doesn't that make it an ordinal number?</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"> </span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">i.e.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"> </span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p style="background:white"><span lang="HE" dir="RTL" style="color:black">א  </span><span dir="LTR"></span><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"><span dir="LTR"></span>= 1</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p style="background:white"><span lang="HE" dir="RTL" style="color:black">א׳ = .1</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"> </span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p style="background:white"><span lang="HE" dir="RTL" style="color:black">ׁ</span><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">According to RDA Hebraica cataloging: </span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:12.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black">As a convention, ordinal numerals are generally transcribed with a period.
</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:12.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black">In the nonroman bibliographic record, the period goes to the left of the numeral if it is transcribed as such</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="color:black"> </span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:12.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black">So I think that    </span><span lang="HE" dir="RTL" style="font-size:12.5pt;color:black">מועד א</span><span dir="LTR"></span><span style="font-size:12.5pt;color:black"><span dir="LTR"></span>' [geresh
 after the <span lang="HE" dir="RTL">א</span><span dir="LTR"></span><span dir="LTR"></span>]</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:12.5pt;color:black">would be transcribed in the 245 as Moed 1. : sipurim</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="color:black"> </span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:12.5pt;color:black">And t you could even add two variant titles:</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="color:black"> </span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:12.5pt;color:black">246 3 Mo'ed alef</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:12.5pt;color:black">246 3 Mo'ed rishon</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="color:black"> </span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:12.5pt;color:black">Best, Heidi</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"> </span><u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:12.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black">As a convention, ordinal numerals are generally transcribed with a period.
</span><u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:12.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black">In the non</span><u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:12.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black">-</span><u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:12.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black">roman
</span><u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:12.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black">bibliographic record, the period goes to the left of the numeral if it is transcribed as such</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:12.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black">As a convention, ordinal numerals are generally transcribed with a period.
</span><u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:12.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black">In the non</span><u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:12.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black">-</span><u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:12.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black">roman
</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:12.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black">bibliographic record, the period goes to the left of the numeral if it is transcribed as such</span><u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"> </span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"> </span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"> </span><u></u><u></u></p>
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<p style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">Heidi G. Lerner</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">Metadata Librarian for Hebraica and Judaica</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">Metadata Dept.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">Stanford University Libraries</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">Stanford, CA 94305-6004</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">ph: <a href="tel:650-725-9953" value="+16507259953" target="_blank">650-725-9953</a></span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">fax: <a href="tel:650-725-1120" value="+16507251120" target="_blank">650-725-1120</a></span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">e-mail:
<a href="mailto:lerner@stanford.edu" target="_blank">lerner@stanford.edu</a></span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"> </span><u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"> Heb-naco <<a href="mailto:heb-naco-bounces@lists.osu.edu" target="_blank">heb-naco-bounces@lists.osu.edu</a>>
 on behalf of Yossi Galron <<a href="mailto:jgalron@gmail.com" target="_blank">jgalron@gmail.com</a>><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, March 23, 2016 2:08 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Hebrew Name Authority Funnel<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Heb-NACO] </span><span lang="HE" dir="RTL" style="font-size:11.0pt;color:black">כיתות ג' עד ו</span><span dir="LTR"></span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"><span dir="LTR"></span>'</span><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">
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<p style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">Uri,<br>
I agree with you - it should be kitot 1 ad 6<br>
Now I have another case that has the same problem: there is a book by Ruth Lorand</span><u></u><u></u></p>
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<span dir="LTR" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:black">o</span><span dir="RTL"></span><span lang="HE" style="font-size:7.0pt;color:black"><span dir="RTL"></span>       
</span><span lang="HE" style="font-size:13.5pt;color:black">מועד א' : סיפורים (תל-אביב : ספרית פועלים, תשל"ז 1977) </span><span dir="LTR" style="color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" align="right" style="text-align:right;background:white"><span dir="RTL"></span><span lang="HE" dir="RTL" style="color:black"><span dir="RTL"></span> </span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="color:black">In this case I would romanize it as "Mo'ed 1" and add a 246 with "Mo'ed alef"</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"> </span><span lang="HE" dir="RTL"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="color:black">Yossi</span><u></u><u></u></p>
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<span dir="LTR" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:black">o</span><span dir="RTL"></span><span lang="HE" style="font-size:7.0pt;color:black"><span dir="RTL"></span>       
</span><span dir="LTR"></span><span dir="LTR" style="font-size:13.5pt;color:black"><span dir="LTR"></span> </span><span dir="LTR" style="color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="color:black">So, I always thought that this would be “kitot 3 ‘ad 6”, but now I see different practices which would translate to “Gimel ‘ad Ṿaṿ”, or even “G. ‘ad Ṿ”</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="color:black">???</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="color:black">Thanks,</span><span lang="HE" dir="RTL"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="color:black">Uri</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="color:black"> </span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas;color:#1f497d">________________________________________________________</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="color:#1f497d">Uri Kolodney</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="color:#1f497d">Non-Roman Processing Unit, Head</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="color:#1f497d">Hebrew, Jewish, and Israel Studies Librarian</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="color:#1f497d">University of Texas Libraries</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="color:#1f497d">The University of Texas at Austin</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="color:#1f497d">PCL 1.342A | Mail Code S5440 | PO Box P Austin, TX 78713-8916</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="color:#1f497d">Phone: <a href="tel:512-495-4399" target="_blank">
512-495-4399</a>|<a href="mailto:kolodney@austin.utexas.edu" target="_blank">kolodney@austin.utexas.edu</a></span><u></u><u></u></p>
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