<html>
<head>
<meta content="text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1"
http-equiv="Content-Type">
</head>
<body bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">thank you for responding, heidi.
actually, according to the back of the book, these are a
compilation of stories by different authors published
simultaneously in both hebrew and english (albeit the english is
clearly the translation), in the u.s. as part of the noir series
by akashic (in other words, the hebrew record should not have the
490/830, but the 500 note i quote from the heb t.p. verso is
good); but the compilation is given a unique title -- Tel Aviv
nu'ar. <br>
<br>
do you still recommend that i change the record for english title
(which 138 libraries already have), adding 130 Tel Aviv nu'ar $l
English, changing the call no. to PJ5045 .T4413, and adding the
767 linking field $i Translation of $a Tel Aviv nu'ar? (Shall I
also add the 767 linking field to the record for the Hebrew (767
$i Translated as $a Tel Aviv noir)?) or, as a compilation, is
there some added wrinkle i'm forgetting? looking at the lc-pcc ps
on 6.27.3 for two language editions in a compilation, each
expression needs an a.a.p. so does the hebrew record need a 130
Tel Aviv nu'ar in addition to the 24510 Tel Aviv nu'ar, or am i
just confusing myself (and others...)?<br>
<br>
jasmin<br>
<br>
On 12/3/2014 12:10 PM, Heidi G Lerner wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:123967361.5155090.1417626638728.JavaMail.zimbra@stanford.edu"
type="cite">
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:
12pt; color: #000000">
<p style="margin: 0px;" data-mce-style="margin: 0px;">I think
that the best way to proceed is to treat the translation into
English as an expression of the work that appeared in Hebrew.
You have clear evidence that this is a translation of a work
that has appeared in Hebrew and not issued for the first time
as a compilation of stories(?) originally written separately
in Hebrew but are translated into English.</p>
<p style="margin: 0px;" data-mce-style="margin: 0px;"><br>
</p>
<p style="margin: 0px;" data-mce-style="margin: 0px;">Just
because an item has been cataloged first does not mean that it
appeared or was received first. Unless we have an earlier date
of publication we cannot assume that the translation was
issued or received first. </p>
<p style="margin: 0px;" data-mce-style="margin: 0px;"><br>
</p>
<p style="margin: 0px;" data-mce-style="margin: 0px;">RDA tells
us 6.2.2.4 tells us:</p>
<p style="margin: 0px;" data-mce-style="margin: 0px;"><br>
</p>
<p style="margin: 0px;" data-mce-style="margin: 0px;"><i>If the
work is published simultaneously in different languages and
the original language cannot be determined, choose the title
proper of the first resource received as the preferred
title. If the language editions are in the same resource
(e.g., a work issued with the same text in French and
English), choose the title proper named on the preferred
source of information as the preferred title.</i></p>
<p style="margin: 0px;" data-mce-style="margin: 0px;"><i>If the
work is published simultaneously in the same language under
different titles, choose the title proper of the first
resource received as the preferred title.</i></p>
<p style="margin: 0px;" data-mce-style="margin: 0px;"><span
style="font-size: 12.0pt; font-family: 'Times New
Roman','serif';" data-mce-style="font-size: 12.0pt;
font-family: 'Times New Roman','serif';"> </span></p>
<p style="margin: 0px;" data-mce-style="margin: 0px;">I think
that we can determine that the original language of the work
is Hebrew.</p>
<p style="margin: 0px;" data-mce-style="margin: 0px;">I would
simply create an authorized access point for the translation
and class it under PJ5045. </p>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Best, Heidi</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<hr id="zwchr">
<div
style="color:#000;font-weight:normal;font-style:normal;text-decoration:none;font-family:Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;font-size:12pt;"><b>From:
</b>"Jasmin Nof" <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:jnof@upenn.edu"><jnof@upenn.edu></a><br>
<b>To: </b>"Hebrew Name Authority Funnel"
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:heb-naco@lists.service.ohio-state.edu"><heb-naco@lists.service.ohio-state.edu></a><br>
<b>Sent: </b>Tuesday, December 2, 2014 1:02:07 PM<br>
<b>Subject: </b>[Heb-NACO] RDA simultaneous publ. of
translation<br>
<div><br>
</div>
i have in front of me the title Tel Aviv nu'ar, c2014,
published by kineret, zemorah-bitan, with the note "Published
as part of the Akashic Noir Series, by arrangement with
Akashic Books, Brooklyn, New York" on the t.p. verso.
(ocn889652189)<br>
<br>
also c2014 is the book Tel Aviv noir, by the same editors in
the same series (akashic noir series, publ. akashic books,
brooklyn, new york), with a translator. (ocn871789609) the
english version was cataloged first (with 138 holding
libraries) using call no. PJ5059.E8 (Translations from Hebrew
literature into foreign languages—English—Prose. Prose
fiction) and no authorized access point for the original title
or linking field representing the original expression.<br>
<br>
questions:<br>
<br>
1. must i create an authorized access point? if so, is it
Tel Aviv noir $l hebrew on the hebrew title record, since the
eng. was cataloged first? or do i go in and change the first
record (messing up 138 libraries), since the hebrew is clearly
the original version, and add Tel Aviv nu'ar $l english?<br>
<br>
2. if i have to create an authorized access point, according
to the june 4, 2013, <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.loc.gov/catdir/cpso/csm_instruction_sheets.html"
target="_blank">update of the csm</a> on F175, the first
edition received is treated as the "original" and the call no.
for the hebrew title would be based on the call no. for the
english translation, PJ5059.E8154? that seems somewhat
contrived (translations from hebrew into english, translated
to hebrew...) the instruction sheet gives an "out" by saying
the principle only needs to be applied if a preferred title
has been used to link the editions, so perhaps it's better
that i not create/add an aap, so i can treat them as two
different works and give the hebrew title its own call no.,
PJ5045 .T44 (off of which the english should have been based,
PJ5045 .T4413... should i go in to the english translation
record and change the call no., messing up 138 libraries, or
just leave it be?)?<br>
<br>
3. if i don't add preferred titles, do i need to use a
linking field to link the two expressions? if so, is 767_8$i
Translated as $t Tel Aviv noir correct? or should it be
767__$tTel Aviv nu'ar. English. Tel Aviv noir $x 9781617751547
[isbn of pprback] $x 9781617753152 [isbn of hardback] $w
(OCoLC)871789609 ? or is the note i quoted above ("Published
as part of the Akashic Noir Series, by arrangement with
Akashic Books, Brooklyn, New York") sufficient with the
english title in the 2461_i title on title page verso?<br>
<br>
please advise, thanks, jasmin<br>
<br>
<br>
<pre class="moz-signature">--
Jasmin Nof
Hebraica Cataloging Librarian
University of Pennsylvania
Van Pelt-Dietrich Library Center
3420 Walnut Street
Philadelphia, PA 19104-6206
T. 215-746-6397
F. 215-573-9610
<a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:jnof@upenn.edu" target="_blank">jnof@upenn.edu</a></pre>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
Heb-naco mailing list<br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:Heb-naco@lists.osu.edu">Heb-naco@lists.osu.edu</a><br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://lists.osu.edu/mailman/listinfo/heb-naco">https://lists.osu.edu/mailman/listinfo/heb-naco</a><br>
</div>
<div><br>
<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>-- <br>
</div>
<div><span name="x"></span>Heidi G. Lerner<br>
Metadata Librarian for Hebraica and Judaica<br>
Metadata Development Unit<br>
Stanford University Libraries<br>
Stanford, CA 94305-6004<br>
e-mail: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:lerner@stanford.edu">lerner@stanford.edu</a><br>
ph: 650-725-9953<br>
fax: 650-725-1120<br>
<span name="x"></span><br>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<fieldset class="mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
<br>
<pre wrap="">_______________________________________________
Heb-naco mailing list
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:Heb-naco@lists.osu.edu">Heb-naco@lists.osu.edu</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://lists.osu.edu/mailman/listinfo/heb-naco">https://lists.osu.edu/mailman/listinfo/heb-naco</a>
</pre>
</blockquote>
<br>
</body>
</html>